Article 50
The Enemy Within
We are now finally negotiating with the EU. All you hear from some people is what a bad deal we will get and how we should give away everything and ask nothing in return. Then how bad it will be... yes, if you were doing the negotiations I am sure it will be. These people really are the enemy within.
It’s perfectly ok to have the debate and a vote by all means, but when they then argue constantly against their own countries interests and try to constantly materially undermine it, you have to wonder where they are coming from. IMHO it explains a lot and shows that their original position is actually a reflection of whose side they are on rather than what is actually best for us. There's a big difference between arguing for what we should want from a negotiation and actually spending all your time and effort arguing FOR the position of those you are going to negotiate with. It'd be like Brexiteers arguing for a 'worse' EU so that it fails and people vote out rather than constantly trying to reform it because they didn't like it. All sides should want the best possible outcome for Europe, the UK and the world. Argue for what you want for sure, but when you're actually arguing against your country for some strange misplaced guilt, just just to win an argument you already lost or something, then it's verging on treason. I honestly think a fair proportion of remoaners are literally brainwashed and genuinely believe that the UK cannot survive outside the EU. That the EU knows what is best for the UK and is trying to do that more than we could for ourselves. For some unfathomable reason their loyalties lie with the EU and not their country. But not one of them can adequately explain to me why the hell this would be.
It’s perfectly ok to have the debate and a vote by all means, but when they then argue constantly against their own countries interests and try to constantly materially undermine it, you have to wonder where they are coming from. IMHO it explains a lot and shows that their original position is actually a reflection of whose side they are on rather than what is actually best for us. There's a big difference between arguing for what we should want from a negotiation and actually spending all your time and effort arguing FOR the position of those you are going to negotiate with. It'd be like Brexiteers arguing for a 'worse' EU so that it fails and people vote out rather than constantly trying to reform it because they didn't like it. All sides should want the best possible outcome for Europe, the UK and the world. Argue for what you want for sure, but when you're actually arguing against your country for some strange misplaced guilt, just just to win an argument you already lost or something, then it's verging on treason. I honestly think a fair proportion of remoaners are literally brainwashed and genuinely believe that the UK cannot survive outside the EU. That the EU knows what is best for the UK and is trying to do that more than we could for ourselves. For some unfathomable reason their loyalties lie with the EU and not their country. But not one of them can adequately explain to me why the hell this would be.
Canada - Explain that to me again...
The EU was absolutely cock-a-hoop to finally manage to tie up a trade deal with Canada after 6 years or so, or was it more? They did finally do it, they had to, just about at the 11th hour. Well done. Canada is a significant trade partner but not one of the big 5 outside the EU. A group that the UK would soon be entering and no doubt be courted with similar vigor and on similar terms if not far more attractive ones bearing in mind not only its size and history but also proximity and potential as a ‘gateway’ to the rest of the world post-Brexit surely… No?
No. Apparently not. We have to be ‘punished’. We have to pay a huge fee to leave this club event though we’ve been one of very few paying into it for 40 years. How does that work? In what world would you accept this sort of ‘deal’? Having been one of three who have financially propped up the whole of the rest of the EU for decades you can certainly understand the fear about losing this particular contributor to the gravy train. You can even understand that there might need to be some payments to complete some schemes that still make sense to all involved and can be agreed to continue beyond the duration of full EU membership expiring. However to imagine that the recipient of such huge investment over so many decades should be given a huge bill as a parting gift is surely spectacularly misjudged. Far from accepting any ‘bill’ we should be awaiting an offer to repay the capital investment made by the UK that we will no longer be able to enjoy in the long run.
What sense is there in being so keen on a deal with Canada but so dead set against the idea of trying to work with what will be your biggest single market once they leave your club. The lesson will be learned one way or another. It might be bitter or sweet but whichever way they take it the EU will get the worse of it. Hopefully they see sense and both sides are able to make a success of Brexit. Only time will tell.
No. Apparently not. We have to be ‘punished’. We have to pay a huge fee to leave this club event though we’ve been one of very few paying into it for 40 years. How does that work? In what world would you accept this sort of ‘deal’? Having been one of three who have financially propped up the whole of the rest of the EU for decades you can certainly understand the fear about losing this particular contributor to the gravy train. You can even understand that there might need to be some payments to complete some schemes that still make sense to all involved and can be agreed to continue beyond the duration of full EU membership expiring. However to imagine that the recipient of such huge investment over so many decades should be given a huge bill as a parting gift is surely spectacularly misjudged. Far from accepting any ‘bill’ we should be awaiting an offer to repay the capital investment made by the UK that we will no longer be able to enjoy in the long run.
What sense is there in being so keen on a deal with Canada but so dead set against the idea of trying to work with what will be your biggest single market once they leave your club. The lesson will be learned one way or another. It might be bitter or sweet but whichever way they take it the EU will get the worse of it. Hopefully they see sense and both sides are able to make a success of Brexit. Only time will tell.
The Art of Negotiation
Let’s remind ourselves of the narrative. The UK, having voted for Brexit, to get out of the cozy protectionist club, are the baddies. The evil, foreigner-hating country who are only in it for themselves. Who want to cut themselves off and be unfair. Well that’s the story we are being told all the time but nothing is further from the truth. Far from it. The UK is the one who wants to start talking, put people’s minds at rest and reach an amicably beneficial divorce settlement. Hardly unreasonable I think. The EU on the other hand is the bitter, scorned woman whereas the UK is now the ‘beaten wife’ grateful to finally be breaking free from an abusive relationship and positive about our future at last.
When it comes to negotiating the divorce it’s important to take all that emotion out of it. It’s not about the past, it’s about the future. What is right for both parties in the future. That’s what Theresa May did yesterday with the 6 page triggering of Article 50 and she should be applauded for doing so. The response hasn’t been quite so encouraging though. To be fair there was some statesmanlike response from Donald Tusk and a feeling of regret which really is justified on both sides because ‘it just hasn’t worked out’ as they say. It’s no time for recriminations, it’s time to sort things out, for the good of the kids and the future.
The first responses have been…
- we need to agree a ‘pay off’ first before even talking? Really? You want us to effectively not only continue to pay for two years when there’s no future to the relationship and then pay for the next five years after that in advance? Would you feel the same if we were a net beneficiary? Be throwing 5 years of rebates our way? Somehow I think not. It makes no sense. Having invested something in the order of £500bn into this relationship we have no stake. We don’t have any equity at all? Really we have paid for more than a third of all the assets of the EU and have nearly 10 billion sitting in their bank account. At best we should be saying they can use that to pay for any on-going projects we are already signed up to as long as we still get whatever benefits there might be from them.
- we are not allowed to talk about any arrangements like trade deals going forward until we have completely agreed how to exit. Article 50 actually doesn’t say this and the two things are related. If they hold this very stupid line we might as well stop now. We have two years to reach an agreement. Not only do we need to talk to the EU about what comes afterwards but also talk to all other people we will be able to start trading directly with in 2 years time.
- despite us wanting to start talking before triggering Article 50 there was no dice. Even to settle the futures of nationals in each others territory. We wanted it but the EU were not interested. Now we start we should concede this, but nothing else, and invite them to dare not to do the same for about a third of the number of our expats on the continent.
There should be things we still want to work together on and in some cases can do better. The EU needs to wake up and realize that. They are not dealing with some mugs who will accept anything. We are not as lame brained as the Clegg’s and Farron’s of this world who couldn’t negotiate their way out of Swindon’s Magic Roundabout with any success. We know our value, we respect you and we know not only what is fair but what is right. You have been warned. If you choose not to listen on your head be it.
When it comes to negotiating the divorce it’s important to take all that emotion out of it. It’s not about the past, it’s about the future. What is right for both parties in the future. That’s what Theresa May did yesterday with the 6 page triggering of Article 50 and she should be applauded for doing so. The response hasn’t been quite so encouraging though. To be fair there was some statesmanlike response from Donald Tusk and a feeling of regret which really is justified on both sides because ‘it just hasn’t worked out’ as they say. It’s no time for recriminations, it’s time to sort things out, for the good of the kids and the future.
The first responses have been…
- we need to agree a ‘pay off’ first before even talking? Really? You want us to effectively not only continue to pay for two years when there’s no future to the relationship and then pay for the next five years after that in advance? Would you feel the same if we were a net beneficiary? Be throwing 5 years of rebates our way? Somehow I think not. It makes no sense. Having invested something in the order of £500bn into this relationship we have no stake. We don’t have any equity at all? Really we have paid for more than a third of all the assets of the EU and have nearly 10 billion sitting in their bank account. At best we should be saying they can use that to pay for any on-going projects we are already signed up to as long as we still get whatever benefits there might be from them.
- we are not allowed to talk about any arrangements like trade deals going forward until we have completely agreed how to exit. Article 50 actually doesn’t say this and the two things are related. If they hold this very stupid line we might as well stop now. We have two years to reach an agreement. Not only do we need to talk to the EU about what comes afterwards but also talk to all other people we will be able to start trading directly with in 2 years time.
- despite us wanting to start talking before triggering Article 50 there was no dice. Even to settle the futures of nationals in each others territory. We wanted it but the EU were not interested. Now we start we should concede this, but nothing else, and invite them to dare not to do the same for about a third of the number of our expats on the continent.
There should be things we still want to work together on and in some cases can do better. The EU needs to wake up and realize that. They are not dealing with some mugs who will accept anything. We are not as lame brained as the Clegg’s and Farron’s of this world who couldn’t negotiate their way out of Swindon’s Magic Roundabout with any success. We know our value, we respect you and we know not only what is fair but what is right. You have been warned. If you choose not to listen on your head be it.